Last week, I did a video interview with Jason Williams from Main Street Ventures, a very interesting investor newsletter concept. After years working on Wallstreet, helping the billionaire-elite get even more wealthy, Jason turned his back on the former corporate home so that he could bring those same kinds of opportunities to regular investors. Here is a link to Jason's business, in case you are interested.

I wanted to share with you the basic script of the video interview as it will tell you a bit more about where CityFreighter is coming from, where we want to go, and about our philosophy. Excuse my English, I am not a native American (but surely by heart) 

Here it is:

Jason Williams:

Greetings, Main Street Venturers, and welcome to the very first Main Street Ventures video podcast. With me today, I have Michael Schoening, the President and Founder of CityFreighter. He's going to answer some questions about the company, tell us what inspired him to found it, and give us a progress report and some milestones that we can look forward to hitting.  And without any further ado, let me let you get to the interview. All right, Michael. Michael Schoening, CEO, and founder of CityFreighter, here. Thank you for joining us. It's good to talk to you again.

Michael Schoening:

Thank you for having me.

Jason Williams:

Of course, of course. So I just sort of wanted to... This is the first video webcast that we're sending out to our subscribers and I sort of wanted to introduce you to them, a more personal connection to the company, sort of getting to know you. I thought maybe you could tell them your inspiration for starting City Freighter and maybe give your elevator pitch on where the company is and where you'd like it to be and, sort of the market and what kind of successes and what kind of catalyst you see for it. And then maybe we'll finish up with just sort of a progress report, anything new that's happened, any new people that have joined the team, anything like that. Does that sound good?

Michael Schoening:

Yeah. Sounds good.

Jason Williams:

All right, sounds great. So, let's start. Why don't you tell us where you got the idea to start an electric vehicle company?

Michael Schoening:

Well, first of all, thank you for taking me.  I'm Michael Schoening President of CityFreighter, the founder of CityFreighter. We started the company in 2018. I actually got inspired by Tesla. I got my first Tesla in 2016, did my first long drive down there in south regions of Europe and I thought, " I have to go into the electric mobility section." And I looked at the market and of course, going into passenger vehicle was far way of thinking. It's too expensive. I looked into the commercial area and I could see that things were just done since... they have done it like 20 years ago, 30 years ago, and that this industry really needs a change. And I also predicted that the acceptance of electric mobility will go through the commercial vehicle market.

Michael Schoening:

And then, we started in 2018, we asked ourselves, "Hey, how are we going to move forward? What is the way? How are we going to build our concept?" And so everybody we talked to was kind of, "Well, you know, it's automotive. It costs hundreds of millions of dollars. It takes you 10 years of development." And I said, "There must be a different way." So, we looked around and decided, "Let's build a prototype." So we rented the space, got a team together, and built the prototype in five or six months. Put it on a plane, shipped it to LA, put it on the show.

Michael Schoening:

And then we were looking into, expecting investors lining up, giving us money, but it didn't work at all. So we know that right now, but from that point, it really started a great journey into the next steps. We learned about the automotive industry. We fine-tuned our business model. And now we are moving into the beta, the beta model phase, which is going to be ready in February, March, next year, 2021. And we are focusing right now on the start of production for 2022.

Jason Williams:

That's awesome. That's excellent. And I know it's frustrating that you didn't have investors lining up after having that prototype at the show in California, but I've got to say, it's really impressive that you guys have a functional prototype, especially after recent developments in the EV market, showing that some of these companies with multi-billion dollar valuations don't even have that.

Michael Schoening:

Yeah. We wanted to make it completely different. We really want to impress, and that was always what I did in life, impressing with the live product. Especially in the EV industry right now, you can see there are so many guys running around, a lot of guys with some nice photoshops and polished Excel sheets, but, that doesn't really convince. I think, in the end, the live product convinces most. And that is really what we did. And, actually, I have never been... I'm not coming from the automotive industry. I was in manufacturing in life, but the first time I went to automotive. We presented the vehicle on the ACT show in Long Beach and we had the guys coming from Daimler, from Mitsubishi, from all these large companies getting into our truck, and said, "Wow. That's a great thing. That's a great concept." That was really motivating.

Jason Williams:

I bet it was, I bet it was. And it really is a great concept. I love the idea that you guys have.

Michael Schoening:

Thank you.

Jason Williams:

It's the modular concept, I really liked that. Living here in Baltimore, there's a lot of ports around us and they do a lot of shipping of vehicles and you'll see internal combustion engine trucks, where it's basically, it's a very similar concept where it's just the cab and the drive train and a frame, and then you put whatever you want on the back. Very easy to customize, lower cost of ownership. And, I really think that's great. And, just also your plans to sort of source existing parts instead of trying to reinvent the wheel like a lot of these other companies have done. And, find companies that already specialize in making good batteries, companies that already specialize in drive trains and brakes, and steering systems and electronics, and really finding the best quality at the best price and sort of putting it all together.

Michael Schoening:

Yeah. Look, we studied the standards in the automotive industry and said, "Okay, there's no way we're going to succeed if we're going to go the same direction. So how can we make a difference? How can we go wrong?" And in the end, I remember when we were at ACT show, two years ago, there was a large slide on one of the presentations. It said, "Collaboration." I think that's a key thing, collaboration, because we figured out, "We cannot do this on our own. We need to  establish and to get real partnerships in place." And this is what we're doing. We are using, for example, the brake system, ABS suspension from an existing, very proven brand, so it's cheap, it's available off the shelf, for large serial production.

Michael Schoening:

So we don't have to put the resources for standard stuff up. We are more concentrating on, let's say solutions for driver operations, efficiency, the total cost of ownership. And that's beyond just changing the combustion engine into an electric vehicle, electric motor. I must say that the adventure and all the travel, the journey, was really exciting because now I could call people, which are very well-known in the automotive industry, as my personal friends right now. They helped us out. They liked the idea. Stefan Krause, former CFO of BMW, he co-founded Canoo, for example. This is a really interesting story. When we put the prototype on the plane.

Michael Schoening:

So I called him, it was Easter Monday, and then the next day the show starts, the ACT in Long Beach. And he is based in Torrance. Said, "What's going on.?"  " I want to show you something." So we put this thing on a towing truck. We had to move it around in LA, put it in front of Canoo Headquarters, and Stephan came down the stairs, said, "Michael, who built this truck for you?" Said, "We built it." Said, "No." Said, "Yeah, we built that truck." So that was really amazing. These guys were studying the truck. And even Uli was there, too. He is the "father" of the BMW I3 and I8.

Michael Schoening:

Now I call them my friends. They looked at our prototype and said, "Hey, this is something. Congratulations" And then we made our way to the show. And so we got really connected to other people in this business, and that helped us a lot. And, so I really appreciate that, and I never thought we could really dig so deep into this automotive world, but, you know the automotive world is changing now. So there's a lot of things going in different directions.

Jason Williams:

Yeah, there definitely is. And you're seeing even the big manufacturers, the big companies like Ford and Volkswagen pairing up, collaborating on new lines and new designs and things like that. Or that's probably a bad example after everything that happened with Nicola over the past couple of weeks, but GM partnering with Nicola to source parts and to supply parts as well. But yeah, no, I think that's great just having all of those. I guess Rolodexes don't really exist anymore, but having all of those people on speed dial it definitely sort of helps the odds of the company, one, succeeding, but two, potentially getting some sort of acquisition or partnership deal or some sort of arrangement with one of these bigger companies.

Michael Schoening:

Yeah. But also, you can see it's changing. It's also about large companies now that they recognize, "That little startup here or the little start- there could also be interesting for us to work with them, collaborate with them. So we experienced a lot of support from those companies, I must say, and this is really cool. And that goes exactly what we just have discussed because collaboration is really the key to the future.

Jason Williams:

It really is. It definitely is. Yeah, no, I think it's really great what you guys are doing. Have I... We talked about the prototype that you guys had at the ACT show. So this funding round is to raise money to develop a second prototype, correct?

Michael Schoening:

Well, we call it not prototype anymore. It's more, it's getting more and more closer in direction of SOP. So it's, we call it more the beta version, but it's also for us important that we have some leverage. We want to build some leverage that we can have access to larger funding. So that is really important for us to move faster forward.

Jason Williams:

Yep. Yep. And I think that really makes your company incredibly exciting to investors in this round is that they're getting the opportunity to get in before big-time investors, where they're getting the opportunity to sort of help the company get off the ground and get the attention of those big institutional investors or the VC funds or the people who can throw millions of dollars around. [crosstalk 00:12:24] That's really impressive. I've compared it to... I can't help, because Tesla's the big EV company, I've compared it to the funding round that Elon Musk participated in at Tesla, when Tesla first came, or when the people who had the idea for Tesla first came to him, they had an idea.

Jason Williams:

They didn't even have a watermark on paper. They had no office, they didn't have a sign. I don't even think they had the name Tesla, but he saw the future and saw something that they could really grow, and he filled almost the entire funding round. And so I think we put in like six and a half million of a $7 million funding round. And it's basically at the same terms that you are offering to early investors in this funding.

Michael Schoening:

Yeah. And, by the way, last Saturday, I've been to LA and I met Tom Gage again, for the second time.  Tom Gage is actually the guy who referred Elon Musk to Tesla. So, that's an interesting story, as well. But anyway, the whole thing is now is moving forward and we love the Wefunder platform because you can communicate with the people. And even just before our interview, I looked on the webpage and I do this every day. So, we do updates every week and we get comments. And you can go on the website and read the comments. And they're so motivating, from the people. And they come up with some really interesting ideas, and say, "Hey, you know, we can do a radio interview. You can really tell smaller investors, to tell them about how this whole stuff works, because not many people know about crowdfunding"

Jason Williams:

Oh yeah. Oh definitely. Yeah, definitely. That's the whole reason that we started Main Street Ventures. Crowdfunding can be very lucrative, but you know, one, it's a little bit murky. There's definitely the possibility for scams to come in there because things don't have to be reported quite the same way, but soon, just because of the opportunities that are out there and the lack of awareness of these opportunities.

Michael Schoening:

Yeah. And, as I said, you got tips. I see it more also as marketing. And we got really great connections through that, through WeFunder. So we talking now to different people about different partnerships, and yeah, it's worth going out to the world and discuss, because that's also part of our concept. The concept is also to go out, talk to the drivers, talk to the operators, to the guys in the street, because they know what they need for the operation of the vehicles. And this is also about the large OEMs, what we learned about them,  for the last 20 or 30 years, they just produced what they saw they can sell to you. You need this. They didn't ask you if you really need this.

Jason Williams:

Right. They just tried to convince you that you did.

Michael Schoening:

 Yeah. And, this is what we do different. And there's, I can tell you, a lot of room for innovation.

Jason Williams:

Oh, no, definitely. Definitely.

Michael Schoening:

Why should a truck be different? Why should a truck be different than a regular vehicle? And in the end, in reference to people... The industry is complaining about the driver shortage. So why don't we just give the driver a clean optimum, let's say optimum workspace? So when the driver gets in in the morning, as I do in my Tesla, I  enjoy driving every day. So, why don't we just have these guys also loving their commercial truck, their vehicle, the job vehicle, and love to work in that truck

Jason Williams:

Oh, no, definitely. I've always said it's way easier to sell something that people already want than to try and sell something, or to try and convince them that they want it and then sell it. No, I definitely agree. I totally agree. And so, you had mentioned in an email a couple of days ago when we were setting this interview up, that you guys had just added a new team member.

Michael Schoening:

Yeah. We just got a new team member on board. The key point right now for us is the lightweight chassis. And we got a new guy on board. He has worked before for Lotus and for Morgan. And he worked also on the famous Light Year project from the Netherlands. It was the star in the last year's CES. So, a very experienced guy, and yeah, we move forward with that.

Jason Williams:

That's great. That's awesome. And that sort of brings me around to your team, which is, it's a little bit smaller than some of the other companies, but something that we've talked about was that it's smaller, but it's more powerful.

Michael Schoening:

Yeah. It's more powerful because we don't have the large funding right now available. Where other companies have a hundred people., we need to clearly sort out the good resources and we do it with people. We have people now on board coming from the UK, from Belgium, from Hungary, from the Netherlands, from the U.S., of course, from Germany. And I can say everybody in his segment is really top. Replacing, let's say two, three, four other guys. And that's the only way how it works.

Michael Schoening:

And, we work a lot through video conferencing, all that stuff. And sometimes, of course, we need to meet at the places. Actually tomorrow morning, we're going to meet in Belgium for the next chassis development meeting. And, it's fun. And you can see that this is a way you can move things. I had a discussion with a larger company that was a year ago about, "Does it really make a difference? Or let's say, is it guaranteed? If you have 300 people employed, or a hundred, or let's say 10 people, is it always guaranteed that the company is doing better who has the 300 people?" It's not, it's all about the right people.

Jason Williams:

It definitely is. I like that. It's sort of goes with how you're setting up the trucks, where you're looking for the highest quality that you can get.

Michael Schoening:

Yeah. And the point of this, right now, it's a 24/7 job, but sometimes you think you have two jobs because on the one side you have to motivate, you have to push your team. On the other side, you have to take care to get the money in because in that phase, every single dollar is very hard to get, but I love it. It's an exciting process.

Jason Williams:

That's good. It sounds exciting. And, definitely your passion for it shows through.

Michael Schoening:

Yeah. A lot of passion. It's a passion for the product.

Jason Williams:

Excellent. Excellent. I love that. I really do like that. And so, I guess, just a couple more questions for you and then I'll let you go. I know it's a little late over there.

Michael Schoening:

That's fine.

Jason Williams:

It's bordering on five o'clock here. You're pushing around nine o'clock over there, yeah?

Michael Schoening:

It's a 24/7 job, so no worries.

Jason Williams:

Exactly. You'll be working in another four hours still. Well, just, you had mentioned that you're shooting for production by Q1 2022.

Michael Schoening:

Yes.

Jason Williams:

You're planning to have the current project finished by February, March of next year.

Michael Schoening:

Yeah.

Jason Williams:

What other kinds of milestones...? I'm sure you've got some far out into the future that is just sort of ballpark, but what other kinds of milestones do you have, either on the track to production or once you hit production?

Michael Schoening:

Yeah. So the beta is going to be ready in February and March, and then we're going to start the certification or homologation process. We are really planning to go out with the minimum viable product, the basic vehicle, and then going into production in Q1 2022. Our plans are that we are ramping up to 10,000 vehicles per year in 2024. That is an ambitious plan, but we are pretty sure that we can meet this.

Jason Williams:

That's indeed ambitious, but I think you can do it too. I think that the demand is definitely there.

Michael Schoening:

Yeah. I've always done projects in life, and we have done projects where other people said, other companies said, "Hey, we cannot do this. That's not possible." In the end, it's like, you can do everything if you just find the right way, the right direction. It's really like I said before, collaboration is key. If you have the right partners in the boat, you can do it. This is also what is the story from the beginning when we went around. There was two kind of companies. For the prototype, for example, we went to suppliers and they said, "Oh, that's too ambitious." Negative. Then the other guy said, it's "sportive". That's kind of okay, it could work. In the end, we worked with the guys who said it's sportive and it worked. We did it.

Michael Schoening:

And it's like, for example, just little things. We expected some freight coming, what we really needed for the prototype, coming by train from China. The train got stuck before Christmas, a couple of times, and I need to convince guys to come on for meeting, even on the Holy Night. And they came, and they're large companies actually, and you cannot expect that from everybody. And so, that puts you together, and when you believe in a vision and you have the right guys, the right partnerships, the right guys in the team, then you can do it.

Michael Schoening:

And we pushed a lot. We built the prototype in the Netherlands. There is our co-founder Joe,  from Santa Barbara. I said, "Hey, Joe, you have to come over to Europe to help us on the prototype." So he flew over and for three weeks in a row... He never worked that long hours in his life. I pushed everybody to the max, but in the end, we succeeded with that. And everybody was really, really excited about it. So, that's how it goes.

Jason Williams:

I like that attitude. I mean, I've always been a fan of the expression if you think you can, or you think you can't, you're probably right. And so, those companies that said it's impossible for them, it probably is impossible. But you looked at the problem and said, "No, this is possible. We just haven't figured out the solution yet."

Michael Schoening:

See, that's what you just said, problems. And that's also, when talking to the guys, I said  "Hey, you know what? Don't tell me there's a problem. We don't have problems. We just have solutions." Right? It's what you said.

Jason Williams:

Very true, very true. Challenges, just opportunities to overcome things.

Michael Schoening:

It's exciting. It's really exciting and we're really looking forward, and the best is really when you finish a product and the people come and look at it and say, "Wow," and that is what really pays back for everything, and that's what we're going to do. And we're really excited about what we're going to present in a couple of months.

Jason Williams:

Excellent. Excellent. I'm really glad to hear that. Like I said, your passion definitely shows through. And I mean, I think it is really... It's an exciting market. It's a really exciting opportunity. The investment in CityFreighter. And I think that what CityFreighter's doing is really exciting.

Jason Williams:

I feel like a lot of the changes that we have in technology, you see them come through in agriculture, you see them come through in government, you see them come through in commercial industries and then finally they hit consumers. So I think that you're right in that the electric vehicles, especially for the last mile delivery, especially for the last mile delivery, that they're going to be picked up faster in the commercial world than they are in the retail world.

Michael Schoening:

Yeah, and even COVID-19 has completely accelerated this whole development. Every day, we're talking about the demand is growing so, so fast, but there's no supply right now, and you got to really push to move something out into the market. We had a meeting yesterday talking about a large contract manufacturing partnership here in Europe. I put out my presentation and it starts with the market. I say, I don't think we need to talk about the market. No, we don't need to talk about the market. Everybody knows where the market is going. It's unbelievable, actually. And talking about what you just said before, you mentioned Nicola, what's going on right now in the news and the press. It's not really so positive for the market because in the end, everybody needs to succeed. The whole EV industry needs to succeed to move forward.

Michael Schoening:

Coming back to the point what was said before: collaboration. That's the same thing. There's no competitor anymore. Let's call it market participants. Do you know? So let's say every market participant needs to succeed. Very important for every company in this business.

Jason Williams:

No, and I liked the way you described that on the Wefunder website, that we don't really see them as competitors, other market participants, potential collaborators, potential partners... But, yeah, that everybody needs to succeed for the EV market to really succeed. I definitely agree.

Jason Williams:

I have one more question for you and it's probably one that I should have asked earlier, but why did you decide on the class three trucks?

Michael Schoening:

First of all, one thing is because we wanted to get a vehicle which we can put into the market very quickly. For example, in Europe, class 3 equivalent is the N2 class... And there's a specific thing. If it's electric, you can go up to 4.25 tons gross vehicle weight ratio, and you can drive it with the basic driver's license, which is different from the US. This is a big issue in Europe in terms of the driver shortage. Because if you go over that weight, you need to have different and extended drivers license education and it takes a long time and money. So, it's much faster and it's much easier to get drivers when you stay in that range. And it's easier to homologate.  In the US, we opted for class three, GVWR over 4.5 tons/ 10,000 lbs. The requirements for certification are easier to fulfill than for smaller vehicles.

Jason Williams:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). Interesting. And you had mentioned when we were talking another time the charging infrastructure. One of the reasons that Tesla has been able to be successful is that they built the charging infrastructure as they built the cars. But the charging infrastructure probably requires more financial outlay than for the vehicle itself. And so, I kind of liked what you had said about the last mile delivery vehicles, those don't need the charging infrastructure because they're charged overnight.

Michael Schoening:

Yeah. That is one reason why we decided also go for last mile, because we really don't have to take care or have to have this large investments into the charging infrastructure. However, we need to come up with solutions for our customers, they're charging overnight at a depot. And usually, with the normal grids, if you just charge overnight two vehicles, that's fine. If you're going to go into 10 or 15 vehicles, you need to change the infrastructure. And so, we talked to companies like Black & Veatch, who have done mostly all the Tesla superchargers in the United States, about collaboration. In the end, we need partners to say, "Hey, customer X. Okay, if you need the help and support for putting up the charging infrastructure, we have a reliable and experienced partner you can work with". The same with the service aspect because we need to also enable service points throughout the United States. So we're talking for partnerships in this area.

Jason Williams:

And it comes back full circle to collaboration.

Michael Schoening:

It is, it is. Collaboration, and it's needed. It's the way how it goes. It's really... It's fun. It's fun working with small companies. You get in working with large companies, and you get so much experience. You can exchange things and sometimes you learn from them. They also learn from you... And that is the exciting thing about this whole business.

Michael Schoening:

I never thought... 10 years ago, if you would have told me, "Hey, you're going to go into the automotive..." I would say, "No, never, ever," but... I think we talked about this once before, I get my point when I had been in the assembly building of Foton in Qingdao, in China, which Foton is one of the largest truck manufacturers in the world. And I looked at all this stuff and say, "Jesus Christ, this is not Mars technology. There's no innovation. So we can do better. We can do the same stuff." So then things started.

Jason Williams:

Things started. I like it, I like it. And I like the way that you look at these things that... You don't see a problem. You see a potential solution.

Michael Schoening:

Yeah.

Jason Williams:

I really do like that. And, like I said, there's companies that told you this is impossible. It probably would have been impossible for them, but you showed within six months that it was possible for you to get a prototype put together and flown from Europe to California and add a show. I mean, I think that's really impressive.

Michael Schoening:

Yeah. You need to find a reasonable way. Of course, you cannot just start from one day to the other and start manufacturing vehicles, but you need to learn about the industry, you need to learn how it works. You need to learn about the regulations, but in the end, it comes back to the team, to the people. The people who's going to make a difference. You need to motivate them. You need to push them forward... and create an exciting product. They are new times right now, new products coming out and everybody can be part of that stuff. You need a vision, but in the end, also you need to execute.

Jason Williams:

Yeah, definitely, definitely need to execute. Otherwise, the vision's just an idea or just a dream. No, I really like what you guys are doing, and I really appreciate you taking some time to talk with me and to let me introduce you to our readers and members of Main Street Ventures. I'm sure that they appreciate hearing from you and now have a little bit more of a personal connection to the company. I like that. And just hearing you talk and hearing the passion come through in your voice, I think, it really proves that you're behind this company, you're not just starting a company to try and make yourself rich. You're starting a company to try and make a company.

Michael Schoening:

Yes. Trying to make a company and also listen to the people. And the same thing, like what I said before, I mentioned before... When people are investing in the Wefunder and they want to ask questions, usually I'm answering emails within a maximum of 24 hours. So, happy to answer questions or to exchange opinions or even get some ideas, why not? That's the way... Why we're doing it, you know?

Jason Williams:

That's excellent. I'm always really impressed just by the fact that you're responding to every question and comment that's asked on the Wefunder page. And I go back in and check every couple of days also. It's just really impressive. As you said, it's a 24-hour job. So I don't know how you find those extra hours

Michael Schoening:

I think there's one example... I don't know exactly who, don't remember who it was. There was a lady from somewhere deep in the United States and she put a hundred bucks up on Wefunder. And she said, "Oh, I thought about it. It's hard, but I think that's the future. I need to do it." Then I thought, who is that woman? And maybe... She's giving her last money investing in the company. So, we need to value that. We need to appreciate that and we need to deliver. That forces you... That motivates you, something like this.

Jason Williams:

That's great. Honestly, that's really great. And one of the reasons I started Main Street Ventures is because a lot of people out there don't value the investor, they just value the investor's money. And hearing you say that and seeing the sincerity in your face as you say it, you really do believe that. And that's something that's really important. It's always been very important to me, that the company has realized that they exist because these investors help them to exist. And even if they're tiny investors like that, the hundred dollars, it's sort of like the parable in the Bible about the woman who gave her last two cents.

Michael Schoening:

Yes.

Jason Williams:

Giving from your want is a lot harder than giving from your excess.

Michael Schoening:

Yeah.  And sometimes you wonder, you can see other startups burning, I don't know, 20 million, 30 million for whatever... And what we have so far achieved for small amount of money, imagine what we could do if we have the right funding, you know? And I think we discussed it also once, in terms of sometimes I think that... I mentioned that before, due diligence. As long as the money is on the table, you can count it by hands, then there's very hard due diligence. You have really hard discussions with investors and all that stuff. But if it reaches a certain amount,  you think nobody's taking care of it anymore, but you completely right.

Michael Schoening:

You have to value the input from investors. You don't know if... Maybe there's a guy who doesn't care spending 5,000, he's a billionaire or millionaire or whatever. But there is probably that lady who has put her last two cents into your business, so you need to value that.  And we appreciate everybody taking care of the company, let's say putting money in our campaign. 

Jason Williams:

Excellent. Excellent. I really appreciate you taking the time out of your day. I know, obviously you do have a very busy schedule. I guess today's going to be a 25 hour day instead of 24.

Michael Schoening:

Yeah, 25.5.

Jason Williams:

25.5

Michael Schoening:

No, I just take a couple of hours of sleep and then we have a meeting in Belgium, so I have to get up very early... Four hours or so, so we'll see. But that's fine.

Jason Williams:

But you can have some nice Belgian chocolate for breakfast.

Michael Schoening:

Yes, we can have that. That's a good idea. My wife doesn't like that. We're eating too much right now.

Jason Williams:

I gotcha. I can understand. The old... They call it in the US here, the quarantine 15.

Michael Schoening:

Oh, yeah. Can tell you a story about this, but this is different thing, so let's get away from that.

Jason Williams:

Right, yep. Nope. Exactly. Well, Michael, I really appreciate your time. I know the subscribers really appreciate your time, too. And I just wanted to say to everybody watching this that, if you do have any questions for Michael and you want to submit them to me, I'd be more than willing to ask him. We can do another one of these and maybe we can do an investor questions segment. So, email them to me the way that you usually do. I'll make sure that Michael gets them. And if we get enough of them, we can do a whole other segment on just investor questions.

Michael Schoening:

Sure. Any time, man.

Jason Williams:

Excellent.

Michael Schoening:

Thank you very much, Jason.

Jason Williams:

Any time. It's always a pleasure talking to you. I really enjoy it.

Michael Schoening:

Thank you.

Jason Williams:

All right. Thank you again, and thank you, everybody, for watching. We're going to go ahead and sign off.